From Memorizer To Decision Maker- The Five Levels of Every Thinker

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Not all thinking is created equal. There are five distinct levels—and most people get stuck at Level 3 without realizing it.

In this episode, I break down the Cognitive Ladder: from recall to comprehension to application to transfer to evaluation. I share the story of a student who could memorize the Constitution but couldn't apply it to modern life, a teacher who transferred literary analysis skills to crisis intervention, and the Level 5 judgment call I had to make when deciding whether to fire a beloved teacher.

What you'll learn:

• The five levels of thinking (and how to diagnose where you are)
• Why smart people struggle when the context changes
• Traps at each level and how to avoid them
• How I transferred thinking skills across four different careers
• The difference between knowing how to do something and being able to adapt it
• How to move up the ladder one rung at a time
• step-by-step methods to move up a level
• aligning tasks with levels to lead and teach better
• building tolerance for ambiguity and owning decisions

If you want to go deeper on this, if you want to diagnose your thinking level and frameworks for moving up the ladder, I write about this every week in my Substack. If you want the insider of Substack, that's a $10 a month, and the link is in the show. 

Chapters

• 0:01 A Student Who Can’t Transfer
• 1:04 The Five-Level Thinking Ladder
• 3:37 Why Developmental Stages Matter
• 5:31 Level One: Recall Explained
• 8:15 Level Two: Comprehension In Practice
• 11:04 Level Three: Application At Work
• 13:15 Level Four: Transfer Across Domains
• 17:03 Level Five: Judgment And Leadership
• 20:26 Diagnose Levels Across Domains
• 22:02 Jay Revisited: Levels In Action
• 24:02 Strategy: Climbing One Rung At A Time
• 27:07 Leading Others With The Ladder
• 28:24 Substack Invite And What’s Next

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:01

I'm sitting in my office at a school in the middle of the day, and a teacher knocks on my door. We'll call her Miss Rodriguez. Mike, I need to talk to you about Jay. Jay's a sophomore, smart kid, actually really smart. He can memorize anything you put in front of him. Tests, you can question them. Vocabulary, perfect scores. But Miss Rodriguez looks frustrated. I don't understand, she says. Jay can recite the entire constitution. He knows every amendment. He can tell you what each of uh each one was ratified, but yesterday I asked him to explain why the First Amendment matters in modern contexts. Like how does it apply to social media? And he just stared at me. He had nothing. She pauses. Is he just being lazy? Is he not paying attention? I shake my head. No, he's not lazy. He's just operating at a level two. She looks confused. Level two. Yeah, there are five levels of thinking, and most educators, you know, we we try to remember these things, and but I'm gonna elaborate that on today. But let me stick, go back to the story. Jay's great at level one and level two, memorization and basic comprehension. But you're asking him to operate at level four, transfer. That's completely different skill set. So Miss Rodriguez asked me, so what do I do? And whichever plot, you meet him where he is. Then you build a bridge to the next level, one level at a time. Here's what most people don't understand about thinking: it's not one skill, it's a ladder with five distinct rungs. You can't skip rungs. If you try to force someone from level two to level four in one jump, they'll shut down, they'll look lazy or resistant or disengaged. But they're not. They're just being asked to do something their brain hasn't been trained to do yet. I see this constantly, not just in schools, but also in businesses and in general leadership. Someone's great at executing tasks, level three, but terrible at strategic thinking, a level five. Someone's brilliant at analysis, a level four, but can make decisions to save their life. Excuse me, can't make decisions, and that's a level five. And if you don't know what level you're at and what level the situation requires, you're going to struggle hard. Today I'm going to show you the five levels, how to diagnose where you are, how to move up on from one rung to at a time, and why trying to skip levels is the fastest way to fail. This is Thinking to Think, the podcast about making better decisions in a world designed to make you think worse. I'm Mike Aponte, also known as MA Aponte, former NYPD officer, former Merrill-Lynch wealth manager, trained actor, and current executive director at a Gainesville Charter School. Last week we talked about knowing thinking gap, why smart people make dumb decisions. This week, we're breaking down the cognitive ladder, the five levels of thinking, and how to climb from where you are to where you need to be. Before I break the five levels down, you need to understand something fundamental. Thinking is developmental. That means it grows in stages. Like physical development, a baby doesn't go from crawling to running. They crawl, they stand, then they walk with support, then they walk independently, then they run. Not because they're broken, but because they're not developmentally ready. Thinking works the same way. But here's the problem. Most people don't know the levels exist. Unless you're in education and have studied uh whether Bloom Taxonomy and all this other stuff. But most people don't know. So they judge themselves or others for not being able to do something they haven't been trained to do yet. A principal gets frustrated with a teacher who can't think strategically, but that teacher has spent their entire career at level three, executing lesson plans, following curriculum. They've never been asked to think at level five, organizational strategy. It's not that they can't, it's that they haven't built that capacity yet. Or a manager gets angry at an employee who can't think for themselves. But that employee was hired to follow procedures, level three. Now suddenly you're asking them to problem solve novel situations, a level four. That's a completely different cognitive demand. Understanding what levels don't doesn't just help you develop yourself, it helps you lead others, teach others, be patient with others. Because once you see the ladder, you stop expecting people to teleport from run from rung to rung. You build a bridge instead. So let's break down the five levels. Level one, recall, repeating information. This is the foundation. You can repeat information back, you memorize it, you can fill in the blank on a test. An example from school would be what's the capital of France? Paris. What year did World War II end? 1945. What's the powerhouse of the cell? The mitochondria. These are level one questions. They require memory, not thinking. Example from work. An employee at Merrill Lynch would need to memorize compliance procedures, product codes, regulatory requirements, client categories. That's a level one, essential, but not sufficient. Example from my current role. An example from my current role as an executive director at a school would be for a new teacher: school policies, emergency procedures, curriculum standards, student names and backgrounds. Again, level one, necessary information, necessary foundation. But if they stay there, they'll struggle. The trap at level one that most people make is they mistake memorization for understanding. And I see this with students all the time and some employees, not just in my current position, but elsewhere where I've supervised. They can recite information, they ace vocabulary tests, and they can think they think they understand the concept, but when you ask them to apply it, nothing. Jay could recite the constitution, the student I mentioned earlier, but he couldn't think with the constitution. He was stuck at level one, maybe touching level two. So how do we diagnose a level one? Ask, can you tell me what X is? If they can repeat it back accurately, they're at level one. And how do you move from level one to level two? Ask, can you explain that in your own words? Can you give me an example? If they can't, they need more time at level one. If they can, they're ready for level two. So you can use those questions anywhere where you're currently at work. Ask that to your for yourself, ask it to others. Can you explain that in your own words? Can you give me an example? Now, level two, comprehension, explaining it in your own words. At level two, you understand what the information means. You can explain it to someone else. You can paraphrase it, you can give examples. Example from school is a level one, a photosynthesis, is the process by which plants make food. Level two would sound more like plants use sunlight to turn water and carbon dioxide into sugar, which gives them energy to grow. That's why plants need sun and water. They literally ingredients for the plant's food. You see the difference? Level two shows understanding, not just memorization. You can elaborate. They understand the why, not just what. Example from education in general, level one, students need scaffolding. A level two is scaffolding means breaking a complex task into smaller steps and providing support at each step. Like when you're teaching a kid to ride a bike, you start with training wheels, then you hold the seat while they paddle. Then you let go, but stay close. You gradually remove support as they build competence. That's level two thinking. The trap at level two, people think understanding equals ability to do. You can understand how to ride a bike, but that doesn't mean you can ride a bike. You can explain photosynthesis. That doesn't mean you can design an experiment to test it. You can comprehend diversification. That doesn't mean you can build a balanced portfolio. Understanding is necessary, but it's not sufficient. So how do you diagnose a level two? Ask, can you explain this in your own words? Can you give me an example that isn't from the textbook? If yes, and they can do that, they're at level two. How to move from level two to level three, give them practice in a familiar context. Let them apply what they understand in a situation that looks like the examples they've seen. So, level three application, using it in familiar context. This is where most professionals operate. You can use the knowledge in situations that resemble your training. An example of this from law enforcement. When I was at the NYPD, level three thinking was most of the job. You learn procedures, you practice scenarios, and then in the field, you apply those procedures to situations that resemble your training. Domestic disturbance calls, you've trained for this, you know the protocol. Traffic stop, you've done this 100 times, you know the steps. Suspect search, you know the legal boundaries, you know the safety procedures. That's level three, essential for most professional work. Example from wealth management: the client comes in and says, I'm 55 years old and I want to retire at 65. I have 500,000 saved. What should I do? A level three advisor runs the standard analysis, calculate retirement needs, assess risk tolerance, build a diversified portfolio, recommend a withdrawal strategy. They've done this a thousand times. Situation resembles their training. Level three is sufficient. The trap at level three, when the context changes, level three thinkers struggle. This is what happened to my surgeon client in 2008. He was great at level three, applying the investment knowledge in normal market conditions. But 2008 wasn't normal. The context changed, and the level three thinking failed him. So how do you diagnose level three? Give them a problem that resembles their training. Can they solve it independently? If yes, they're at level three. How to move from level three to level four, however, give them problems that are similar to their training, but with key differences. Force them to adapt. Level four, transfer. Adapting to new contexts. And this is where real thinking begins. At level four, you can take knowledge from one domain and apply it to a completely different situation. You can adapt when the context changes. You can see patterns across unrelated fields. An example of this is from my career transitions. When I left Merrill Lynch and became an actor and a consultant, I didn't leave my thinking behind. Acting requires understanding character motivation. Why does this person do what they do? What's driving their decisions? That's exactly what I did in wealth management. Understanding client motivation. Why are they making this investment? What emotional need is it fulfilling? What fear is driving this choice? I transferred psychological insight from finance to performance arts. Then I went to the NYPD. Same skill. Understanding suspect motivation, understanding witness behavior, reading people under pressure. Then education, understanding student behavior. Why is this kid acting out? What need isn't being met? Same thinking skill for different contexts. Again, an example back in the teaching, going back to that scenario. So Miss Rodriguez, the teacher who came to me about Jay, is a level four thinker in her classroom. She teaches English literature, but last year when we had a crisis, a student having a mental health breakdown, she was the one who handled it beautifully. Why? Because teaching literature requires understanding, character motivation, emotional states, subtext, narrative arc. She transferred those literary analysis skills to a crisis situation with a real human being. That's level four. The difference between level three and level four is this. Level three, I've seen this before, I know what to do. Level four, I've never seen this exact situation, but it resembles something I understand from a different context. Let me adapt that framework. Example from the NYPD experience. Barricaded in an apartment. Standard protocol, level three thinking said establish perimeter, call negotiators, wait them out. But I've been trained as an actor, I understood something about performance and identity. This person was performing in crisis. They were playing a role, person who's going to hurt themselves. And the roles have scripts, and scripts have exits. So instead of threatening it as a pure tactical situation, level three, I approached it as a performance that needed a different ending. I didn't talk to them as officer to suspect. I talked to them as one human to another who's having the worst day of their life. I transferred my understanding of character and performance to crisis negotiation. It worked. That's level four. And how do you diagnose a level four? Give them a problem they've never seen before that requires adapting knowledge from a familiar domain. Can they make the connection? Can they adapt? If yes, they're at level four. Level five, evaluation. Making judgment calls. This is the highest level, and it's the rarest. Level five isn't just about adapting knowledge to new contexts. It's about making judgment calls when there's no clear right answer. At level five, you're weighing competing values, incomplete information, second-order consequences, trade-offs between good options, long-term versus short-term outcomes, stakeholder needs that conflict. Level five is leadership thinking. Example for my current role. However, she was warm, caring, and dedicated. But her instructional quality and her communication with students um were not to par, I will say. And other teachers were having conflict. I had it to weigh student outcomes, staff morale, legal considerations, financial reality, ethical obligation, long-term organizational health. There was no textbook answer, no formula, no clear right choice. That's level five. I could apply knowledge, level three, I could adapt frameworks from other contexts, level four, but ultimately I had to make a judgment call that I couldn't be certain was right. Another example from Merrill Lynch. Uh, the financial crisis that was unfolding in 2008. I have clients calling me, panicking. Should I sell everything? Should I buy more? Should I move to cash? There's no formula for this. The situation is unprecedented. Every option was a massive risk. If I say sell everything and the market rebounds, they miss the recovery. If I say hold steady and it gets worse, they lose everything. If I say buy more and we're only halfway through the crash, they're destroyed. I had to make a judgment call with incomplete information, high stakes, and no clear answer. That's level five. The difference between level four and level five is level four, I can adapt my knowledge to this new situation. But level five, I have to make a decision when there's no clear right answer, and I will be held accountable for the outcome regardless. Level five requires comfort with ambiguity, tolerance for risk, ability to synthesize competing information, willingness to be wrong, and the capacity to live with consequences. Most people never develop level five thinking because most people never have to make true judgment calls. They execute level three, they adapt with level four, but they're not in a position where they have to make the final call when the stakes are high and the information is incomplete. That's why leadership is hard. It requires level five thinking. So how do you diagnose your level? And others. Here's the critical insight: you can be at different levels for different domains. I might be a level five in leadership, level four in finance, level three in technology, level two in medicine, and level one in astrophysics. The level isn't about you as a person, it's about you in a specific domain. So here's some diagnostic questions to assess yourself. To assess level one, can you tell me what X is? X can be whatever you think it is. You know, the subject. To assess level two, can you explain X in your own words and give me an example? To assess level three, here's the problem that looks like the training you've had. Can you solve it? And to assess level four, here's a problem you've never seen before that's related to something you know. Can you adapt your knowledge to solve it? And to assess level five, here's a situation with incomplete information, competing values, and no clear right answer. What would you decide and why? Example with Jay, the student from what we talked about in the beginning. Level one, tell me what the First Amendment says. He nails it. Level two, explain in your own words why free speech matters. He can do this. Level three, here's a historical scenario where free speech was restricted. Analyze it using the First Amendment. He can do this if it looks like examples you've studied. Level four, here's a modern situation about social media censorship. Does the First Amendment apply? Why or why not? He struggles, this is transferred. He has to adapt constitutional principles to digital context. And then level five, you're on the Supreme Court. You have to decide a case with where free speech conflicts with public safety. Make a ruling and justify it. And he's nowhere near this yet. He's a solid level one, level two, developing at level three, not ready for level four or five. It doesn't mean he's dumb. It means he needs scaffolding to build level four capacity. So, how to move up the ladder one rung at a time? Here's the strategy. Number one, diagnose where you are, honestly. Pick a domain, use the diagnostic questions, be brutally honest with yourself. If you're a teacher, are you at level three, executing good lesson plans, or level four, adapting instruction to individual student needs in real time? If you're a manager, are you level three, following procedures, or level five, making judgment calls that shape the organization? If you're a parent, are you level two, understanding child development concepts? Or level four, adapting parenting strategies to your specific kids' unique needs. Don't skip this step. Most people overestimate their level by a lot. I did a whole episode on um on that. There was an entire study. When you think you know more than you really do. Uh, I'll put the link in the description below. But two, build the next level deliberately. You can't jump from level two to level five. You have to go level two, level three, level four, level five. From level one to level two, force yourself to explain concepts in your own words. Teach someone else, create examples. One of my favorite phrases um is try a teacher concept to a six-year-old. And if you can explain it, then you got it. From level two to level three, practice in a familiar context. Do the thing repeatedly until it becomes automatic. From level three to level four, deliberately put yourself in a familiar situation that require adaption. When I went from finance to acting, I was forcing level four development. I had to transfer skills to a completely new domain. From level four to level five, put yourself in positions where you have to make consequential decisions with incomplete information. This is why experience matters for leadership. You can't learn from level five from a book. You have to make hard calls and live with the consequences. 3. Be patient with yourself and others. Moving up levels takes time. You can't rush it. If you're a level 3 thinker, trying to do level 5 work, you'll fail. Not because you're incapable, but because you haven't built the capacity yet. And if you're leading others, meet them where they are. Don't ask your level 3 employee to make level 5 decisions. You'll frustrate them and set them up for failure. Instead, give them level 3 work, then gradually introduce level 4 challenge with support. 4. Recognize when the situation requires a higher level than you have. This is the hardest part. Knowing your limits. If you're in a situation that requires level 5 thinking and you're at level 3, you have three options. Option one, get help with from someone at level 5. Option two, buy time to develop your capacity if the decision can wait. Option three, accept that you're going to struggle and do your best. What you can't do is pretend you're at a level you're not. That's why my surgeon client did. He thought he was a level five investor. He was actually level three. And when the context changed, the 2008 crisis, his level thinking three failed him. Use the ladder to develop others. That's number five. If you're a teacher, parent, or a leader, the cognitive ladder is your roadmap. Don't just dump information and hope people figure it out. Build the bridge. Level one, give them the information. Level two, have them explain it back. Level three, have them practice in familiar context. Level four, give them novel problems to solve. Level five, put them in a decision-making role with support. This is how you build thinkers, not just followers. And if you want to go deeper on this, if you want to diagnose your thinking level and frameworks for moving up the ladder, I write about this every week in my Substack. You'll get my weekly decision journal where I show you the level 5 calls I'm making, case studies from my four careers showing how I developed level 4 transfer thinking, templates for diagnosing thinking levels in yourself and others, and my reflections where I get stuck at the wrong level and what I've learned. If you want the insider of Substack, that's a$5 a month, and the link is in the show. However, I do give a ton of free uh notes and information. So please sign up. Next week, we're gonna be talking about building a thinking identity, how your identity determines your thinking. Your thinking determines your decisions, and your decisions determine your life. If you're ever wonder why you keep making the same mistakes, even though you know better, that episode is for you. Thanks for thinking with me. I'm Mike Aponti, also known as M A Aponte, and this is Thinking to Think.