The Personal Toll of War: Stories of Conflict Part 1

 In this episode of "Thinking 2 Think," we explore war and the devastating conflicts that have torn apart South Sudan and Uganda. From the brutal civil wars in South Sudan to the terror inflicted by the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda, we examine how political and ideological battles turn deeply personal and dehumanize entire populations. Our special guest, Mansuke, a refugee who survived these horrors, shares his story, giving a human face to the atrocities and highlighting the resilience of those affected. Join us as we delve into the complex interplay of politics, religion, and personal suffering in these regions, and reflect on the urgent need for peace and reconciliation. 

Transcript

M Aponte: War, in its essence, is often a political tool. Nations and leaders clashing over power, resources and influence. But when these conflicts turn inward, becoming civil wars or ideological crusades, they transform into something far more insidious. They become personal. It's no longer just about territory or governance. It's about survival. Identity and deeply ingrained beliefs. One side begins to see the other, not just as an enemy, but as a monster that must be eradicated. In today's episode of Thinking to Think, we are going to dove deep into the heart wrenching stories of conflict that have ravaged South Sudan and Uganda over the past few decades. We'll explore how these wars driven by political, ethnic and ideological divides have become deeply personal and essence ugly. And to bring a human face to these stories. We'll be joined by Marzouk, a refugee who has witnessed the horrors of these conflicts firsthand. Now a little back story in South Sudan. Decades of conflict between the northern and southern regions culminated in the first and second Sudanese civil wars. This was around 1955 to 1972, then 1983 to 2005. These wars were marred by brutal campaigns from the northern predominantly Muslim government against the southern, largely Christian and amnesty population. Forced conversions, destruction of churches and mass killings became horrifyingly common. The second civil war alone resulted over 2 million deaths and millions more displaced. As the Comprehensive Peace Agreement was signed in 2005, leading to South Sudan's independence in 2011, many hoped for peace. But the newly formed nation quickly descended into internal conflict. Political rivalries, ethnic tensions and power struggles led to further violence, turning neighbors and even family members against each other. The dream of a peaceful, independent South Sudan was shattered, replaced by a nightmare of civil war and ethnic cleansing in Uganda. The story is equally harrowing. The Lord's Resistance Army, led by Joseph Kony, emerged in the late 1980s claiming to fight for a state based on the Ten Commandments. Yet their actions were anything but holy. The LRA campaign of terror included mass abductions, killings and mutilations. Children were forced to be coming. Soldiers and sex slaves and entire communities were decimated. Connie's perverse use of religious rhetoric to justify his atrocities turned what might have been seen as political rebellion into a deeply personal and traumatic experience for millions of Ugandans. The phrase reign of terror extended beyond Uganda, reaching into South Sudan, the Central African Republic and the Democratic Republic of Congo, leaving a trail of devastation in its wake. And while the Ugandan government fought against the LRA, other militia groups with Islamic fundamentalist motives, like the allied democratic forces, added to the region's instability and suffering. These conflicts have left scars that will take generations to heal. The political ambitions and ideological fervor that fueled these wars have resulted in unimaginable personal suffering. One side deems the other a monster, stripping away the humanity that binds us all. And we can see similarities in brutal attacks. With the ongoing conflict across the world today. It is important to remember that war, In its essence, is not only a political tool. is ugly and predictable and always contains sadness, suffering and despair in war. It's always relatively the same unless it's ideologically impersonally driven. Today we are honored to have Mitsuko with us when she is a refugee who has lived through the brutality of these conflicts. His story is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit and enduring hope for peace. Through his eyes, we will see the true cost of these wars, not just in terms of political change or territorial gains, but in the countless lives torn apart, the communities destroyed, and the deep wounds that remain. Join us as we listen to one souk story and reflect on the lessons we can learn from these tragic chapters in South Sudan and Uganda's history. Let us remember that behind every political, ideological conflict are real people like myself, whose lives are forever changed by the horrors of war.

Unknown: All right. Thank you so much, Monsoon, for sitting with me today and this episode of Thinking to Think. This is the first interview and hopefully of many, many more. But without further ado. And so please tell our audience who you are, your background, and. what motivates you as far as you know, when you come here into the United States? So please tell us your story. Thank you. Thank you, Michael, for having me. Thank you for the opportunity. My name is Mansoor Milton. I'm a father to two boys. Jeremy's three and Jessie is five. Currently, I live in Uganda as a refugee. I'm not sure if you know that South Sudan have been in war for over two decades. And I was born around that time. The war started in 1983. I was born just three years after the war started in 1986. I always tell people that I was born in war. Raised in war, and I've only known war. My generation is level as one generation. I've experienced every sad things that will brings when you talk about pain. I experience that when you talk about trauma. I experience that when you talk about loss. I experienced that. I lost my dear brother when he was 15 in the war. When you talk about hunger. I've experienced that when you talk about sickness. I've experienced that. Throughout my life, I can simply look and say, you know, the South Sudan war. Took my childhood. When you talk about pain at home, I experienced domestic violence. My dad joined the Army when he was 14 years. And you understand the trauma that comes with, you know, being being a soldier in such kind of environment. So he brings that trauma back home and experience the trauma and the pain of forged my mom being beaten every night as a child of when my dad is home But we we sometimes we run out at home or we hide under the bed. And so I've I've never experience or being in a space where I can be loved as a child, where I can where I can dream a space, where I can be myself, a safe space and never experience that. And not until in 2000, you know, five, six. I, I was able to overcome that. Uh, uh, I could see, you know, having the right mentors around me. You know, my faith really in in God really helped me to. To walk through that. And in 2016, I, I, I got, I got with it, and I was looking for a woman. I knew clearly what I wanted in a woman. And I was looking for I'm passionate about, you know, young people. Passionate about my country. Passionate about serving my people. And passion about young people. And I was like, This is the kind of woman that I need so that we can work together. And I got married. This stuff I found this lady there was alignment and purpose and passion. So her marry this beautiful lady. We got married late in 2006, I think January 9th, just a few months after our wedding, when we're now thinking about building the foundation of our marriage and and all of that, you know, war came and the war was more tribal. We have about 64 tribes in South Sudan, and our conflict is along tribal lines where we begin to kill each other. So it was not now safe, you know, for us. So we had to run for our life to find safety in Uganda. And this is now raging in Uganda. It's a new life. And when when did this conflict happen? Do you remember the year? So so the conflict started. And just to take you back, South Sudan has been in war for two decades, from 1983 until 2025, when there was a ceasefire with 25 2005. So yeah, yeah. Okay. So 2005, there was a ceasefire. I remember that. Yeah. Comprehensive peace agreement. So. So they will never stop fighting. Stop no ceasefire. So we went for referendum in 2011 and as over 90 over 90% of South Sudan is voted for independence, that we want to be on an independent country from the north. In 2011, July 9th, we celebrated our independence. South Sudan became, I think then us country in the world. And then just after three years after independence, after that celebration, joy of finally being independent and having that freedom, having the peace. Our leaders. When into fighting between themselves because of power. And that was in 2013. Wow. So that war became bloody because it was now it was now it was between two leaders. But now it went tribal. There was now between tribes and then in 2000. So 2018 until 2020 ten. That 10 to 2016. Yeah. They say if you look at the history, the history of wars in general, yeah, um, usually the bloodiest ones in battles are the ones that, when it's internal, when it's civil, when it's a civil war, when there is internal conflict, because there, there becomes a Yeah. Almost like it becomes personal. It's not so much like, Oh, your country is doing this and my country is doing that, or it's more brother and father going become, you know, it's more intimate. Yeah. Yeah. So that must have. Yeah. Yeah. True, true. Yeah. It's it's bloody I think, you know, South Sudanese started thinking do we really do the right decision, you know, to come out of north? Of course. Now we're fighting. We're fighting each other, you know, should we go back, you know, to North Sudan? Funny enough, some of the South Sudan is actually right when rain back, you know, to North Sudan to safety. Yeah. So my the war became unsafe for us. We moved to Uganda and started a new life. Uh, you came. You came to a new country with nothing. Uh, so you have to struggle to get food. You are in the tent, there's no house, so it's starting a new life. Very difficult and struggle with that. Uh, the young people who about in South, the refugees that move to Uganda. But over a million refugees. Wow. And and. And over 60% of this population are young people below the age of 30. Wait. So over 60%. 60% of a million are young people. Below the age of 30. So these young people are traumatized. These young people are like puppies. These young people that are involved in early marriages, this high rate of early pregnancy, high rate of early marriages in the comes because the idea that issues around gangs that you see that aren't stealing. I was going to ask about that. So I mean, 13 years old. I mean, this is just from my experience in education that that's a very impressionable age in the wrong person, you know, with the with. With lack of a better word, evil intentions can change the actions and behaviors of a 13 year old or younger and Yeah. So. So you're saying if if we're looking at at six 60% that's. That's 600,000. Yeah. And they're just scattered in the wind type of. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And so these are the way these numbers. Like, do you have an idea how you how you got these numbers? Just, you know, I want to make sure we're on the up and up and things and I don't mean to get. Yeah, I got this from the the UNHCR. Oh, working or hosting the refugees in, uh, in Uganda. Okay. The population of South Sudan is about 10 million and it's 60, 60% young people. So. And the people who are really impacted by this war, uh, women and young people. Hmm. So, yeah. And, Mike, it's. It's tough for these young souls, the young adults in the camps, and they are the future of South Sudan. I always say there is no way you can rewrite the story of South Sudan without investing in these young people. That's true. And the same can be said about any, any country. And so I, I felt like I felt a burden. Uh, I started asking myself, how can I serve my country? How can I be a part of rebuilding my country? And so I started having this conversation, uh, I felt like, you know, the pain that I went through as a child, uh, give me a purpose. I feel like I was re fine. I was equipped, uh, by all the experiences that I went through, I was transformed by that. And out of that, I got a purpose. I got a vision, I got a mission is about my country. And especially to engage the young people who are the future of my country. My two sons who are now born in Uganda, now refugees. And I was like, I want to create a new South Sudan that one day my my kids can go back and feel safe. I want to, you know, be part of that. And last year I, I, I started an organization. My wife and I, we, we, we, we left our jobs that we were part of. And we start an organization called limite y e n e t. So again, it means let Yemenis in my heart language. It means hope. We? When you voted. It comes right now. But the economy is in a state of hopelessness where people have lost hope. People have lost their dreams. Uh, so I was there, or I was in that state of hopelessness. So I feel like it's now my opportunity. It's now my time to give this young generation, these refugees and brothers and sisters, the hope that you know, what I mean is these challenges, this trauma, I mean, is this pain you can see you can still overcome it. So. Yenny Through the power of sport football, I don't know how you call it soccer. Yeah, we every, every, everyone, the world calls it football. We, you know, Americans have to be we have to be special. So we call. So yeah. So through the power of sport football, we engages these young people. We create spaces for these young people to to be loved, to be cared for, to mentor them, you know, to to find healing, you know, from them trauma. But more importantly, also, I said earlier that we have 64 tribes and we don't like each other. So we are using the power of sport football to engage in these different tribes, to work together, to build social cohesion, to have this conversation say, hey, we're all here, we need to work together. We need to love each other. You know, we need to go back home. And brothers and sisters, we need to look beyond beyond the tribal lines. We need to celebrate our differences. So unity is using the power of sport to raise a generation of Southern leaders who will one day go back home and rewrite their story in the narrative of our country. Yeah. Yeah. I'm definitely want to know more about Yemen and for any way that. We can support your organization. But before we get to that, I'm curious how we met through, uh, in this for the audience, through a, um, through a training thing that we did for, with the River Phenix Center for Peace Building. And if you don't know what that organization is, it's an international organization. It's actually named after the actor from Phenix was created by Joaquin and Rivers mother. Yeah. And so it's a great organization of just peace building. How did you come along and met the river? Yeah. Yeah. So? So back. Back in 2021, my. My wife shared with me this link. So when I checked, he said, Hey, Milton, this, this, this program fits you very well. So I checked this this program. So do you. The US State Department have this program called Community Solutions Program. So so what they do, they bring community leaders ideas of change around the world. Mhm. Uh. To the States. For four months to study about peace, to study about to learn about peace, learn about indication and governance so you can apply for it and you will through that process. They interview and they bring you over to, uh, to that, to the state. So I saw, I saw peace. I was like, my, my country needs peace for me to to talk about peace, for me to, you know, build peace. I need I need I need to land more. You cannot give out of an empty cup. Hmm. So I applied for for that program, went through interviews. And one day in February, 2000, 2022, I got this acceptance letter. Hey, congratulation, Milton. We selected 120 fellows out of out of 8000 people. Not the the the people that applied, you know, from 80 countries. I was like, wow, this is a big deal. I didn't know. So that's and I chose peace and I got I look around they connected me to river Phenix extent of peace building and and organization. So I had an interview with with Jeffrey and the team. So after listening to them, I was like, wow, I think this is this, this is this alignment is a good match. So I say yes, and they also say yes to have me. And that's how I go to the States for the first time. Nice. Yeah, that's how we met there. Yeah. And then. And then we met. Yeah. And for those most of you that don't know, this has been this idea of setting up this interview has been a long time in the media. Yeah. So we're finally doing this, so. You started. When did you start the unit? I started I started a unit right after I went back from from the States. That that that was last year. Okay. Yeah, last year. So yes, it is registered in Uganda and also registered in South Sudan. Yeah. So a lot of the stuff you learn from the River Phenix Center, you got to take that. You're using this little skill set an important part in a fantastic. Yeah, that's great. And they partner with that so yeah. So yeah and if you check that out DNA on all unit that org so I'm going to I'm going to spell it out again, make sure I got it, but make sure also the listeners got two sides y e and e t dawg. Yeah, yeah. Net dawg was there and through that website they can donate. Yes, you can easily, you can easily do an idea. Okay. Yeah. And it's part of the reason why I'm here in the States is, you know, to share my story like this and then also with different, different people to raise support in helping us to bring hope to this broken part of the world. Mm hmm. Uh, yes. And that's why I am. I mean, they states. Yeah. Okay. I want to. Unless you have more to add and um, you know, means you can. Um, a lot of the stuff that you mentioned kind of. You know, I'm always looking at history, you know, and I and I always have this maybe it's the way my brain works, but I always try to look at because history has a tendency to rhyme in many ways, not repeat, but rhyme as they say. And I look at a lot of the stuff that's been going on currently with the other wars like Ukraine. Excuse the background noise, I guess the cleaning people are doing that. Ukraine, the war currently with Israel and and Palestinians. And I think of the people and I can't help but really like. Like the traumas and the experiences you had and how some people are living that right now. I mean. What are some of the things that you used to kind of cope with, the things that you've witnessed in your life? Because I remember when I was growing up hearing about the wars and child soldiers, and that was a big deal back in the nineties with, um, children being recruited in, in different countries in Africa during all these conflict for, and they just filling them up with drugs and then to fight in wars. Um, what, what are the, some of the things that you don't mind sharing what you saw. And also like a little more detail on that as well as what was your as you were growing up, what were some of your strategies on coping with your experiences? Because I'm sure there's got to be someone out there that may be listening to this. And they may be in a difficult situation, you know, by all means. Is there any link, anything you want to share in detail or anything that you feel like you want to share that with those of you that may feel hopelessness? Yeah. Yeah. I think how one, however, overcame that. Of course. One is. Is. Is having the right support system, like the right people, mentors who created that space. You know, for me to I was struggling with, you know, trust issue. You know, I could not trust. People can imagine. Yeah. And. But having the right mentors, the right company gave me their space, you know, and they were just there to love me, that dad would listen to me, that dare to care for me. I feel like that helps me to trust him. And then I started really opening up, sharing. And that's where, you know, my, uh, my healing started. Uh, as I begin to share in this, I begin to find people that I trust and I can share, you know what I when I went through. So it goes back, you know, and sure that you have someone really you trust and can give you that space to listen and you can share your heart that that really helped me a lot, but also my faith in God. You know, that's fantastic because I know that's a. That's a big thing. And I and I to believe that. You know, and I don't know. I mean, clearly, not every listener is going to agree with this, and that's fine. We can peacefully disagree, but I believe that God's a big important thing. And yeah, you know. In my life and should be, in my opinion, should be in everybody's life because you can be a critical thinker. You can't think logically. You can look at certain things as facts. But there's a certain there's certain things, of course, that you just hope and faith is just something that nothing can truly replace. Yeah. Yeah, I think it and that's not the same, uh, the same experience because when you, when I talk about these people, uh, this support system. I kind of strongly say these were divinely brought to me by God. And and so God use these people to, to to really bring this healing this whole. To me. Yeah. So narrowing it down, really, it's my faith in God that helped me to overcome this and and the hope that we know we have here in him And now we are sharing that, bringing that hope to our brothers and sisters, you know. I can't help, but I was trying to take some some notes, and I can't help but see and notice something. During the Civil War. Your wife was pregnant. Or was she or was she like that before she was pregnant? She she got pregnant in Uganda when we move. Okay. Okay. That's okay. Because I was like, that's a rough graph, you know? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I think that you were living you were a refugee. You living in tents and in tents and. Yeah, but. But after after after we got a job and then, you know, we move out of the. And started thinking about having, you know, babies and so not help us to take care of, you know, pay rent, you know, take care of our, you know, basic needs and at least be out of of the income. But I my mom, you know, my my my siblings are still in they come. But in 2000, 2000, 23, last year, we fell like the way we have to leave our jobs and this party. And then, of course, we feel like this is how we want to really play a part in building our our country. And and so we are now dealing with that transition of not having jobs. And yeah, and now it's a sacrifice and big sacrifice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you're so it's a lot of sacrifice because also, you know, you have to worry about your children, too. Yeah. You know, so I commend you for that and to thank you. My I hope it expands, you know, because there are more and more refugees because of these conflicts that are happening not just in your country, but in different parts of the world right now. Um, I believe an entire generation was even lost in the Ukrainian war. Yeah, you know, and I could only imagine how many generations were lost during the Civil War. Yeah, 60%. Yeah. Were below the age of 13. That is in. You know, you have to ask, you know, what happened to the parents. You know, it's not like they were just like, poof, gone. You know? And those are these little things that you have to think about is so impactful. So I. I. I want to thank you for taking the time to tell your story. Again, the two organizations I want to highlight it, two organizations I want to highlight is Unit Y, E and E, t dawg, as well as the River Phenix Center for Peace Building. That's don't have a website in front of me, but if you just Google River Phenix Center for Peace Building, you will definitely find it. It will be the first one on your search engine. Um, to organizations I do recommend you supporting. Again Janet new organization by monsoon. He you know I think the support is needed. I think. Should definitely check it out. You know and if you can donate. I know the economy and times are tough. Maybe it's something we could talk about another day so the economy can trickle down to places like Uganda and how that, you know, unfortunately, how the lives they live. I guess we could do that in another episode virtually or something. But again, amazing, amazing organization. I do recommend you checking it out. Yeah. Thank you guys so much. I appreciate you. And Sukh, is there anything else you want to say? Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Mike, for giving me the opportunity to share my, you know, my story and my contacts. And thank you so much for for listening. Just, I just want to encourage you, um, the big ask for me that I always tell people, if you, if you can pray, you know, pray for, you know, pray for my family, pray for you and, you know, pray for South Sudan, but also, you know, find a way to to think beyond America and see how you can play a part in rebuilding this this broken country and invest in the in the future of South Sudan. And that's why I am in the states really trying to raise, you know, support and monthly support also can, you know, help us to bring this hope, you know, to this to my brothers and sisters. Thank you so much. Thank you. Think it's think and may Aponte also known as Mike Aponte signing out don't forget to like and subscribe. Take care.